DC Database talk:Licensed characters and crossovers
All discussuons about points. Continue any discussion in the relevant section. New discussions should include a header "Point X.X", and be placed in order to keep things clear. Continued from Talk:MK vs DC Yeah, this is a better place for the discussion about rules! Not on Scooby-Doo or MK vs DC. SeanWheeler (talk) 22:37, September 2, 2013 (UTC) :Just creating some clarity. --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 22:40, September 2, 2013 (UTC) Point 1.3.1 Just a small clarification or two: # The Nedor/Better characters are assumed to be in the public domain, correct? Or at least the material published under the Nedor/Better banner. # Would we be nutshelling the Nedor material on the ABC character page or point to some thing like this. - Byfield (talk) 22:20, September 2, 2013 (UTC) :I know one of the admins from the Public Domain Database. We've discussed working together in the past but never saw a real opportunity. This may be one of those times. Kyletheobald (talk) 22:23, September 2, 2013 (UTC) ::That may not be a bad thing. At a spot look at one of their Black Terror articles, they do point to the ABC character here. - Byfield (talk) 22:27, September 2, 2013 (UTC) :::Yeah, there's interwiki potential. Probably include a note on historical first appearance just like we do on Prime Earth characters. I'm mainly saying this because those Terra Obscure characters have, in addition to crappy 100px cover crops, quite often Golden Age Nedor covers in their image gallery. They should be deleted. --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 22:42, September 2, 2013 (UTC) :Just to clarify on the public domain rule, it has to be in public domain when DC uses the characters. If it wasn't back then when the comic was published, it would still count as licensed here until DC starts using the characters regularly after they become public domain. I'm clarifying this now because of Tarzan. Edgar Rice Burroughs works have been put into public domain, but in the 70's when DC was publishing the Tarzan comics, Edgar was only dead for 27 years, and the requirement for a work to be public domain is 70 years after the author's death. So that is another factor to look into when determining something as public domain. SeanWheeler (talk) 01:42, September 10, 2013 (UTC) Point 1.4 For what it's worth, I think we should just note the odd character that Lee didn't own that appeared in a WildStorm book while at Image and leave it at that. IIRC, his books had very few cross-overs with the rest of the IU. This would be the tact to take on things like the Batman/Spawn inter-company books. - Byfield (talk) 22:23, September 2, 2013 (UTC) :Savage Dragon comes to mind. He's a creator owned Image hero. He also had a crossover with Supes. Would he get a page, or do we just link to Image wiki? --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 22:37, September 2, 2013 (UTC) ::With Batman/Spawn: War Devil Vol 1 1 we link Spawn out to the Image wiki, I don't see any major reason not to do the same with Savage Dragon. The only tweak I might suggest is the idea Rab suggested of a soft redirect - a page on this wiki for Spawn (Image Comics) and/or Savage Dragon (Image Comics) that basically explains that the character is covered in more detail on the Image wiki and provides a "Please follow this link for more information about the character." ::This would also work with Star Trek characters and give an option for character based appearance categories... ::- Byfield (talk) 23:15, September 2, 2013 (UTC) :::I'm not overly fond of soft redirects. They look sloppy, and if people don't know much about wikis, they might think the page is broken. --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 23:24, September 2, 2013 (UTC) ::::True. And with characters that have one or very few appearances it would be more work than the potential benefit. I was looking more at thing like the core Star Trek characters were the appearance categories might be nice to have here. - Byfield (talk) 23:30, September 2, 2013 (UTC) Point 2.2.2-3 Just a note on the last option there: It is very likely that Wikipedia may not have an article for a licensed character to point to. There is a tendency for even the primary characters in a game or film franchise to not get an article. Having a centralized page might help. Might, it depends on if it's to be an umbrella or franchise by franchise. - Byfield (talk) 22:34, September 2, 2013 (UTC) :That's for the insanely obscure properties that don't have an own wiki. But Wikipedia usually has "List of XpropertyX characters" or something. --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 22:40, September 2, 2013 (UTC) I do have a wiki that is supposed to cover everything, called the Database Wiki. It has a lot less articles than Wikipedia because I was the only one contributing to it. Well, if all else fails, just leave the character as a black link. SeanWheeler (talk) 22:44, September 2, 2013 (UTC) :As for the franchise pages, I just did this to Masters of the Universe. I used a Reality Template, but we may need a slightly modified Franchise Template or some such. Also, individual comics should probably include at least one for categorization purposes. --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 10:26, September 4, 2013 (UTC) :Coming back to this now, are we going ahead with the Franchise template? --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 07:55, October 15, 2013 (UTC) ::Yeah, I liked it but, you really didn't need to delete it just because of Hatebunny's complaints. SeanWheeler (talk) 17:41, November 19, 2013 (UTC) :::I was never sold on it, but I went ahead with it because I suggested it, and didn't hear anything against it. The concept may be right, the name isn't perfect. For now, the Location template suffices.--[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 17:47, November 19, 2013 (UTC) ::Franchises are not locations. SeanWheeler (talk) 18:22, November 19, 2013 (UTC) Point 2.3 This covers a lot... #I really have no problem with treating the Dakotaverse as part of the DC multiverse, up to and including having articles for the characters and locations. Milestone, for whatever reason, never took the properties elsewhere after DC stopped publishing for them. There is also a general miss-interpretation all around that these are DC properties. #This is a case where a centralized page could be helpful. I tend to agree that we probably shouldn't have (MJL) tagged character pages, but I do think we need something to put context to the Impact characters and the 2008 experiment. This could either be in the notes sections of character pages, as notes on dab pages if the survive, or a MJL Publications page. Just as an aside, would it be possible to move what we have for the MLJ published stuff - comics and characters - to the Archie wikia? #Did DC create any characters for the Tarzan or other ERB properties that are unique to what DC published or did they just stick with the novels? If there's nothing new, then we may be able to collapse the character articles into single reference page. #Doc Savage and the Shadow are a bit more of a problem... #* The 1985 and 1988 Doc Savage series used the pulps as a starting point. DC though then added a Clark Savage III and Clark Savage IV to pull the stories into the present. There may be room to argue that those are "DC characters", but not a whole lot. #* The Shadow is worse... DC to three runs at the character: 1973-75 which was integrated into present of Earth-One with appearances with the Earth-One Batman; 1986-89 set in the 1930s, no overtly linked to the DC multiverse, and increasingly strange, almost to the point that it wasn't the Shadow; and 1989-1992 again set in the 1930 and which linked to the then running Doc Savage title. All three have the main character lining to an Earth-One character page. I'm thinking a reference page and leaving the issue summaries to spell out what was going on. # Did DC purchase it from the Ellis estate? Is DC doing omnibus/trades of the old stuff. Or do we just have the First Wave and the series just before that to worry about? - Byfield (talk) 23:23, September 2, 2013 (UTC) :# Of course we're keeping Milestone. :# I checked, Wikipedia lacks pages for a lot of MLJ guys. Maybe just a note "X is based on Y". :# No idea. And another thing is Earth-ERB is used for both - was it ever made clear both Tarzan and John Carter were part of the same universe (this is also my gripe about ABC - Terra Obscura, Top 10 and Promethea seem different worlds) :# Maybe just a page Doc Savage. :# Spirit needs more research. --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 23:18, September 2, 2013 (UTC) :::2. I think that would be doable. :::3. Lord help me, but I think there was a DC story that linked Tarzan, Cater, Innes, and maybe Napier. So we aren't relying on Wold Newton for it. :::4. I've got no problem with converting that dab and Shadow into reference pages. :::- Byfield (talk) 23:36, September 2, 2013 (UTC) Point 3.2 The DC characters are non-canon appearances of the then-current mainstream version? Does that mean they don't get a reality? Will we have to delete the DC characters of Earth-Mortal Kombat like Superman? Is MK vs DC just a non-canon New Earth story? Or does it mean non-canon as in another reality entirely? Can you please clarify? As much as I didn't want pages on the MK side, I didn't want the DC side to go too. SeanWheeler (talk) 23:03, September 2, 2013 (UTC) :That line is about comic crossovers. In the case of MK vs DC, it's not New Earth, we treat them as a separate universe native to the game, like we do all games, even obscure crap ones like Aquaman: Battle for Atlantis and Batman: Dark Tomorrow. (Earth-Mortal Kombat) is a misnomer. I prefer (MK vs DC). --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 23:13, September 2, 2013 (UTC) ::If we are dealing with properties based on a game, I would agree a dab based on the game is better than an "Earth-whatever". ::If we're dealing with the inter-comic-book-company crossovers, it almost might be better not to try and generate appearance categories or links to character pages on this side unless it is crystal clear that the DC characters are within the DC mutiverse in some way or the cross over encompasses multiple books/issues. ::- Byfield (talk) 23:21, September 2, 2013 (UTC) Phew, at least I don't need to worry about Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern, Captain Marvel, Joker, Lex Luthor, Catwoman, and Deathstroke of Mortal Kombat getting deleted. But I would want to read about the DC side of those Marvel/DC crossovers. Marvel has a reality for that and we don't? I know that we talked about this a long time ago, and I lost that argument, but I won this argument, so I'll push my luck. >:) SeanWheeler (talk) 23:45, September 2, 2013 (UTC) :Nope. Any info about them will be on the issue synopsis. --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 09:06, September 3, 2013 (UTC) As in, we're just going to treat the characters on the DC side of the Marvel crossovers like Non-DC characters? Just mentioned and not covered? And we call ourselves the "DC Database?" I don't like this idea of "noncanon." Most Noncanon stuff go into their own universe. SeanWheeler (talk) 23:48, September 3, 2013 (UTC) :# RE: DC/Marvel: That really becomes a case by case issue. A few of the crossover had "nudge-n-wink" references in New Earth continuity. And JLA/Avengers and the "Versus" minis were laid out as using New Earth and Earth-616. :# Need: The bottom line though comes down to how much a character article for an inter-company crossover, any character article, is needed. Frankly, if an article on the comic or game just gets regurgitated in the character pages, the character pages aren't needed. And there is the degree of WAGing the character pages get based on the similar New Earth character page. :# "Noncanon" = Create new "universe" page(s): And that is exactly what has landed us right here. There are a lot of things on the Database that are not currently, have not been at some point, and/or have never been in canon for the DCU/New Earth/Prime Earth. They are, in some cases, things that have been published by DC and/or owned by DC and are fair game for inclusion. The grey are over including some, like Scorpion or Kano, and not others, like Spider-Man, Kirk, or Scooby-Doo, has become enough of an ongoing issue that a had, fast way of handeling those characters is needed. Pointing to other wikis for the licensed characters at least allows a semblance of providing information. Some one reading the DC vs MK page who isn't familiar with Scorpion still has a way of finding out who the character is. Most of the DC characters though, they likely would not need the back ground - someone reading the article on this Database is likely to know who, say, Aquaman is. : - Byfield (talk) 00:38, September 4, 2013 (UTC) ::There are stories that are ruled non-canon by later eventsZero Hour (like Son of the Demon), and there are stories that were never intended to be canon (like World's Funniest). ::That we shouldn't cover the spider-Man crossover, or even the Aliens series, on Superman's page has nothing to do with canonicity, but with conciseness. We don't cover every single issue in the character synopsis as it will simply be too long and unorganized. --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 08:04, September 4, 2013 (UTC) * Other media such as the DCAU have a few references to New Earth, because it is the source material of most DC related media so references to New Earth events still make sense. Jean-Paul Valley mentioned Jigsaw, because he's crazy, right? You know how Deadpool is so crazy he constantly breaks the fourth wall? However, I have no idea what issue referenced the X-Men/Teen Titans crossover. * It is already clear that the JLA/Avengers and the Versus series having New Earth and Earth-616 colliding. However, does that excuse all those other crossovers? No, they contradict them. Those other crossovers imply that the DC and Marvel heroes inhabit the same Earth, when they obviously don't. * While my old idea of "Earth-Crossover" was shunned for being fanmade/Marvelmade, I would suggest characters from those crossovers, their universe name would be "Intercompany Crossovers" because we already have a page by that name. So Kal-El (Intercompany Crossovers) would be the Superman that fought Spider-Man. * Marvel and DC are not the only companies included. Meetings with Dark Horse, Image, and Archie can be included in the character's articles, so Bruce Wayne (Intercompany Crossovers) can talk about Batman's encounters with Punisher, Spider-Man, Daredevil, Spawn, Predator, Grendel, and Judge Dredd. * The non-DC characters will NOT get their own articles, because they defeat the purpose of this rule to purge non-DC related characters off the site. * The Batman crossover with Captain America will still be part of Earth-3839. No later issues of Generations contradicts this meeting, right? Sure Cap wouldn't appear in those later issues, but they didn't retcon him, right? * The crossovers with imprints will still be New Earth (or whatever reality we labeled the issue), because imprint characters like Static became part of New Earth. * All crossover comics get pages, even those where DC does the licensing and Marvel publishes. That way, we don't have to depend on Marvel Database, and we can have complete character appearance categories. * But what shall we call the second crossover between Spider-Man and Superman? It was titled on Marvel Database Marvel Treasury Edition Vol 1 28. Not only does it sound non-DC related, but we don't have 27 other issues (although it didn't take 1000000 issues to get to the DC One Million specials, despite being numbered 1,000,000.) And the title on top of the cover says "DC and Marvel Present: Superman and Spider-Man." Should we treat it as a one-shot and call it that? * So what do you think of my suggestions? SeanWheeler (talk) 03:17, September 5, 2013 (UTC) :Bits and pieces: :* This really isn't about the DCAU, other television series, film, radio, or the like. In fact the only non-comic example I can come up with is the stunt from Barman (1066) where the Green Hornet and Kato showed up. :* There was a ref to Teen Titans/X-Men in the Titans annual where Dick first puts on the Nightwing outfit. :* I think I'm starting to get a handle on the wording of this point and how it impacts the functions of the appearance categories, links in the "Appearing" sections of the issue pages, and content parameters for character pages. :*# Unless there is something specific to the story stating otherwise, the DC characters are assumed to be, for all intents and purposed, the current "main continuity" versions. The full explanation of the the events involving the characters will be the issue synopsis. The Bat/Cap crossover is an example of then currently published alternate continuity "hosting" the crossover. The Batman/Tarzan one being a example not being able to directly equate the Batman characters with other things DC was publishing. :*# Since the appearance is assumed to be out of canon, that is it does not fit and does not affect the canon stories, it does not get detailed in the character article. But, not everything published with character A in it winds up on character A's page anyway. The character history is supposed to be "brief" overview with more detailed information on the pages for story arcs and individual issues. :*# The links in the "Appearances" section of a page are there to allow a reader access to background on the characters. Under this point those should be mostly simple links. The non-DC properties would link out to the appropriate page in another wiki, the DC properties assumed to be functionally identical to the "main" versions link to those pages, any thing else would most likely be unlinked text unless there is a reference page to link to. :*# With one or two story cases, the "Appearances" categories are not needed. The few linked issues don't need the extra navigation tool. (It's worth noting that this should also be the case with in canon characters as well...) With longer stories, using for the DC characters could be discussed as likely useable. Something similar though would need to be developed if we want to generate appearance categories for the non-DC characters. :*# (Earth-Crossover) and (Intercompany Crossover) both fuel editors making WAG. The stories themselves provide little to no history or back story for the characters. Worse, it assumes that either all of the stories take place in the same continuity or the character page gets sections for crossover. Neither is a good thing. :*#* It is interesting to note that while we're trying to hash this out, you, SeanWheeler, have created a situation on the Marvel Database where links that used to provide basic character back ground now point to blank pages. That damages those pages and looks a little spiteful since you acknowledge that bold one-editor initiative was shut down and deleted. :- Byfield (talk) 13:47, September 5, 2013 (UTC) ::I will try to fix those Marvel Database pages. SeanWheeler (talk) 17:06, September 5, 2013 (UTC) :What was the Marvel reference in Titans Annual Vol 1 1? SeanWheeler (talk) 17:39, September 5, 2013 (UTC) ::Dick's comment to Jericho when Jericho states he's a mutant. "Mutant" was not a term that was used by DC for its supers. And response was (paraphrasing here) "Mutant huh... I've heard good things." ::- Byfield (talk) 20:54, September 5, 2013 (UTC) :::So? "Mutant" doesn't specifically refer to the X-Men. Have you ever heard of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles? And the definition of "mutant" is: Something which has mutated, which has one or more new characteristics from a mutation. SeanWheeler (talk) 22:17, September 5, 2013 (UTC) ::::(sigh) Stop and read what I posted. ::::DC did NOT use the term "mutant" in identify its superheroes or villains, even though a chunk of them could have classified as such, in sotry or out. ::::Using the term, and the follow up comment, has been pointed to as a "nod" to the crossover where Grayson a team of superheroes who tossed the term about fairly freely. ::::Oddly enough, the context is important here. Not just the definition of the word. ::::- Byfield (talk) 23:59, September 5, 2013 (UTC) ::I just looked up the years and the Titans Annual, which came out in August 2000 was released after the Marvel Versus DC series from 1996, which had the actual New Earth and Earth-616 collide, and not a shared Earth. Dick Grayson cold have picked up the mutant term there, can't he? SeanWheeler (talk) 00:29, September 6, 2013 (UTC) Point 3.3 I'm a little confused by all of this but I figured this would be the point to discuss Scorpion (Injustice: Earth One) and Kano (Arkhamverse). I admit I made the Scorpion page and I don't want to see it deleted. But, I'm afraid, by deleting it, we would be losing information. I've seen the Mortal Kombat wiki page. The last time I was there, the only mention of Injustice was in the Trivia. "Scorpion is a downloadable character in Injustice: Gods Among Us." That's it! Nothing about his moves, his animations, his appearance, his personal epilogue. In the game, I see Scorpion as an Injustice character who just so happens to be a Mortal Kombat character, too. --- Haroldrocks talk 17:00, September 3, 2013 (UTC) :That's the "The other wiki sucks"-argument pointed out on the MLJ argument. Cruelly put, it's not important. The incompleteness of another wiki is not an argument to make an exception to a (proposed) rule. What you could do is edit his page on the MK wiki, or discuss how the IGAU info can be used on that wiki. --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 17:17, September 3, 2013 (UTC) :: I didn't mean to bash the Mortal Kombat wiki. I was just pointing out that they weren't covering Injustice like we are. :: Although I would prefer to see him with his fellow Injustice fighters on this wiki, I will discuss Scorpion's IGAU appearance with the MK wiki and see what we could work out. My ideal solution is to get him a sub-section on the Scorpion page over there, and then have our Injustice page link right to section. --- Haroldrocks talk 18:42, September 3, 2013 (UTC) :The Injustice Wiki has an article on Scorpion. Why not link there? SeanWheeler (talk) 23:32, September 3, 2013 (UTC) :: I didn't realize there was an Injustice wiki. That's a good point, SeanWheeler. Let's link there instead. --- Haroldrocks talk 00:42, September 4, 2013 (UTC) Yeah, I think Scorpion should stay. I mean he should be functionally treated the same as an original character appearing in the game. It really shouldn't matter whether he is covered on other wikis or not. I agree that characters who have no more than cameos (Sub Zero and Shao Kahn) should be linked to their appropriate wikis, but characters like Scorpion whether guest or not should have have pages due to their more substantial involvement. Tec15 (talk) 12:16, September 4, 2013 (UTC) :Do you really think Scorpion was important enough? He didn't even appear in the Injustice story. He was just a DLC character that came later. He was more important in MK vs. DC than Injustice, but did we cover the MK side? No. In Injustice, all of the other characters can have articles because they were DC Comics characters. Scorpion, is the only Non-DC playable character, which is why he won't get covered here. His intro even had him about to finish off Sub-Zero in an MK arena, but interrupted when he mysteriously teleported into the DC Universe. He's not from either the Injustice Prime universe or the Injustice Regime universe. He is from the Mortal Kombat universe. SeanWheeler (talk) 14:13, September 5, 2013 (UTC) The majority of users agrees on delete, with no good arguments for keep. The content on the page can be salvaged for the IGAU wiki or the MK wiki, to which we'll link. That's the only thing that needs to be resolved now - which wiki?--[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 14:21, September 5, 2013 (UTC) ::Well, the Scorpion page on MK wiki has a link to his Injustice Wiki page, and we might want to make it clear that he's a Mortal Kombat character, I'd suggest that we'd link to the Mortal Kombat Wiki page. If we link to Injustice, the person may get confused and try to recreate the page, because the Injustice Wiki is about a DC fighting game, and who knows, maybe the MK Wiki might give Injustice Scorpion later. Of course it wouldn't be appropriate to add Injustice info on their pages on Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Flash, Captain Marvel, Lex Luthor, Joker, Catwoman, and Deathstroke because that would be too much info on DC on an MK site. But since Scorpion is the only MK character in Injustice, I'd think they could cover him. His trivia has three points about Injustice, and his gallery has Injustice images. SeanWheeler (talk) 16:55, September 5, 2013 (UTC) :Done. --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 17:11, September 5, 2013 (UTC) And now for Kano. He is tougher to decide on because he wasn't introduced by teleporting from the MK universe. However, in MK vs. DC, Flsh just meets him in Gotham, and as this was before Flash switched places with Scorpion, a player who hasn't played Mortal Kombat may see Kano as an obscure DC villian, making Kano's appearance in Arkham City Lockdown similar to his introduction to the DC story in MK vs DC. And in Arkham City Lockdown, Kano is just the third enemy as an Easter Egg in the EMP Challenge Steel Mill. He doesn't have a major point in the story. Even though his history section points to the Synopsis of Arkham City Lockdown as if he's the main protagonist, Batman just fights him in the Steel Mill. And since we have no Kano disambiguation page (the page titled Kano is about the staff member Jose Angel Cano Lopez) there is no New Earth Kano, and Kano was just a cameo in Arkham City and looks obviously like the Mortal Kombat character, I would say he's just a licensed character with no place on the DC Database. SeanWheeler (talk) 19:22, September 8, 2013 (UTC) :We're keeping Kano. Just like we could, arguably, have a Fox Mulder page for the guy who shows up in Supergirl. :And please don't unlink characters from images. --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 19:29, September 8, 2013 (UTC) ::We don't have a Fox Mulder page. You just deleted Fox Mulder (X-Files), and that was the only article we had about him. And like Scorpion, Kano was only in Arkham City Lockdown because of NetherRealm Studios developing the game. Kano is just another licensed character. SeanWheeler (talk) 21:19, September 8, 2013 (UTC) :Early on in Supergirl v4, a special agent named Fox Mulder shows up. He falls in the Kano category. Modeled and named after another character, but native to the mainstream universe. --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 21:31, September 8, 2013 (UTC) Which issue? I just looked through thirty issues here, and can't find him, although those issue pages looked a bit incomplete. Did any of the X-Files shows' writers have anything to do with the issue (licensing and/or writing the issue)? Did Fox have any other appearances in the DC Universe? Is X-Files even in public domain? (I highly doubt that) Is there anything distinguishing about this Fox from the one in X-Files? SeanWheeler (talk) 21:54, September 8, 2013 (UTC) Point 3.4 From the stand point of maintenance, this would be a good idea. I'd side with a separate template over a switch. Frankly a switch could wind up getting royally misused. A "licensed comic" template would be a lot cleared. - Byfield (talk) 23:40, September 2, 2013 (UTC) Point 4 I'd put together , , and a while back. They were meant for insertion in the Notes or Links section of a character article to acknowledge the character was based on something else and point the reader to the relevant Wikipedia article. - Byfield (talk) 23:46, September 2, 2013 (UTC) :Adapted character? We'd probably wouldn't need that anymore since most of them are going to get deleted. Characters like Mad Hatter would be getting . ::Actually Traditional would be for characters based on, and sticking close to, faerie tales, myth, forlklore, and religion, like Abel (New Earth) or Aphrodite (Earth-One). The Mad Hatter's appearance was taken from Caroll's character, but DC's character deviates drastically beyond that. ::As for Adapted character, it's likely you're right, though we may still wind up with some that stick around. ::- Byfield (talk) 00:49, September 3, 2013 (UTC) ::I would consider Alice in Wonderland as folklore. SeanWheeler (talk) 00:56, September 3, 2013 (UTC) :::It's literature. --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 09:08, September 3, 2013 (UTC) Point 2.2 What about licensed characters who live in a DC universe, not in their own universe? We have pages for them, and they aren't really controversial and have been around a while. These characters include: * Elvira (New Earth) * Jerry Lewis (Earth-Twelve) * Kent Allard (Earth-One) * Andrea Thomas (Earth-S) * Bob Hope (New Earth) * Pat Boone (Earth-One) I assume they are allowed under the same reasoning that allows the New Earth MLJ characters from 2009-2010. but we should make that explicit. Shadzane �� (talk) 17:18, July 30, 2019 (UTC)